Talk:Army of Lovers

Untitled

I love this band to bits and think they are among the best in the known world, however some of the wording in the first paragraph needs to be reworded in order for this article to be more NPOV. "Excellent" and "gorgeous" in particular may need to be revised. -- Francs2000 | Talk [[]] 16:42, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)

How's that for you? Did my best! Selphie 16:48, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Fantastic! And so quick, too! -- Francs2000 | Talk [[]] 10:09, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC)

You're welcome - i think i stumbled over it doing a "random page" Selphie 11:44, 1 Feb 2005 (UTC) **

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Requested move 14 March 2025

Army of Lovers → Army Of Lovers – In nearly every official instance I can find of the band's name being used, the "O" in "Of" is capitalized, unless the name is stylized (such as on the design of an album cover). See their official website, Discogs listing, CD booklet insert for The Gods of Earth and Heaven, CD booklet insert for Sexodus. _{(I can only find one instance of a lowercase "o" being used; on the back cover of a CD booklet for Glory Glamour and Gold)} Rainbowlack (talk) 06:52, 13 March 2025 (UTC) This is a contested technical request (permalink). Rainbowlack (talk) 21:43, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

(Copied from move request page) Toadspike replied:

@Rainbowlack We use sentence case for article titles and we generally prefer the name most commonly used in sources over the official name. A search at Ngrams shows that the lowercased version is far more prevalent in books. If you have evidence that the capitalized version is more prevalent in independent, reliable sources, please click the "discuss" link in your request to open a move discussion. Toadspike [Talk] 14:39, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback Toadspike! I did some more digging via Ngrams and Google Books.

It should be noted that:

1. The band, Army Of Lovers, was formed in 1987, so any results from before then should be excluded.

2. Academic usage of the phrase "Army of Lovers" tends to refer to the documentary Army of Lovers or Revolt of the Perverts.

This seems to be reflected in this search, with usage of "Army Of Lovers" overtaking "Army of Lovers or Revolt of the" in the early–mid 1990s. (Had to exclude the last word due to Ngrams' seven-word limit).

Again, uses with the lowercase o tend to refer to the documentary, or other moments/phenomena in queer history.

When looking at uses within the context of this specific band, most sources seem to use the capital O.

• This Billboard article from 1992 capitalizes the O
• Plus, this Billboard article from 1991. (Billboard consistently uses the capital O. I can only find one example, from 1995, of them using a lowercase o, but they return to capitalizing it in 1996.)
• This CD listing from Ebony magazine
• Spectrum Volume 3, Issue 1
• From Blues & Soul
• Page 5070 of The Encyclopedia of Popular Music: Smith, Leo-Wildchild

The only music/band-related source I consistently see using the lowercase o is SPIN magazine (example 1, example 2, example 3), used in much less formal contexts (e.g. anecdotes, opinion pieces). Rainbowlack (talk) 22:37, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

• Oppose per MOS:CAPS.
  If you maybe think the preposition "of" has some hidden meaning and is not actually a preposition, explain why. :-)
  But from what I see, the band's official website capitalizes every word in English-language titles (e. g. "When The Night Is Cold", "Let The Sunshine In" [https://www.armyoflovers.eu/]),
  and the booklet does that too ("Sons Of Lucy" [https://www.discogs.com/release/545329-Army-Of-Lovers-The-Gods-Of-Earth-And-Heaven/image/SW1hZ2U6MjUwNzczOQ==]). --Moscow Connection (talk) 16:05, 17 March 2025 (UTC)

  It's not a matter of grammar here, but a matter of the proper name of the band. Names don't necessarily follow "rules" about grammar and sentences.

  Per MOS:MUSICCAPS: "if the artist has chosen to capitalize short conjunctions, prepositions, etc. then the article title may follow the artist's choice"

  
  

  You've seen this yourself in regard to this band and their songs, so why the opposition? Rainbowlack (talk) 19:37, 17 March 2025 (UTC)

  • The part you cited is referring to "titles of works and releases". As for the artist names, it is the first paragraph that talks about them and it is strict and just says: "Standard English-language text formatting and capitalization rules apply to the names of bands and individual artists". --Moscow Connection (talk) 21:45, 17 March 2025 (UTC)

• Oppose. I've done some looking around and I'm not convinced that independent sources capitalize the "of" widely enough for us to use the stylization in our article title. Doing some Googling among news and music outlets, I saw plenty of sources that lowercase "of" to refer to the band—e.g., The Guardian, Haaretz, Songwriters Hall of Fame, and AllMusic. I did also find a small number of sources with capital "Of" (e.g. The Quietus), but on reviewing the evidence collectively, it seems like usage is mixed—in which case we should default to sentence case. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 21:04, 17 March 2025 (UTC)